Carole Demas and Stuart J. Allyn have long married and an entertainment world power couple. Demas has had a hugely successful career as an actress and singer in theater, television and film, and beyond. She was the original Sandy in Grease on Broadway, and while starring in that show began her popular children’s television show, “The Magic Garden,” with long-time friend Paula Janis. The duo continue the legacy of the show with concerts and events attended by a dedicated fan base. Besides extensive theatrical roles on and off Broadway and regionally, Demas has had significant roles in TV and on film, and has been a principal performer in over 200 commercials for TV, on jingles and voice-overs for radio and television, and has starred in her own cabaret act and on concert stages nationwide.
Stuart J. Allyn is a Broadway and TV sound designer, consultant and recording engineer. He has been nominated for four Grammys, three Emmys, an Obie, several CLIOs and is the winner of EMMY, ASCAP, Drama Desk, Outer Critics Circle and three film festival awards. Allyn’s EMMY Award was for lead audio—“The 1994 Winter Olympics.” His Broadway and theatrical credits include Phantom of the Opera, Sayonara, Song of Singapore, Company and more. He has served The White House and was designer/mixer for Broadway to Barbados Concerts as well as Actor’s Fund benefit concerts, the Bistro Awards and many films, recordings, concerts and cabaret shows too numerous to mention.
Nightlife Exchange (NLE) asks Carole Demas (CD) and Stuart J. Allyn (SJA) Six Questions:
NLE: Prior to your making the video, “From Our Hearts to Yours,” how were you coping with quarantining? What largely occupied your days?
CD: First, Stuart and I want to thank you and NiteLife Exchange for this opportunity to share our thoughts. I will overflow, as usual and Stuart’s answers will likely be more concise.
My “Magic Garden” (lon-loved children’s TV show) dear friend of 66 years, Paula Janis, and I are the subject of a documentary currently being shot. The filmmakers, Out Of The Woods Productions, have been following us through our concert performances and personal lives. It was time for my personal interview section of the project. Covid 19 was hitting NYC, but everything was still open. Like any reasonably sane actor, I ran to do my hair! Color, cut, took great care in a Metro North car with only 3 other people. Walked in the city-took no public transportation. Got the wardrobe ready, all set, then BAM, we were quarantined and cautioned by our doctor to take it seriously because it looked like it was hitting seniors especially hard. All gigs cancelled. I’ve been told I should write a book. I’d like to try and this seemed the perfect time to start, but life is still so full and moving too fast for me to stop and write about it.
I love books. I read the New York Times almost cover to cover. Stuart reads the news online. We talk about what we are reading as we grieve our way thru the situation in Washington and the ever growing division in our nation. We are heartsick, so, what else was there to do but start cleaning out cupboards and closets, dumping tons of old emails, more cooking, more early gardening—and more thinking—often about turning 80. And about where do you go from here when you realize how much of your life you have already lived, and how much time you might be lucky to have ahead. About what really matters when your savings dwindle and your income stops. At first, it felt good to know I could be a mess and nobody would care. I got a lot done, but the fun of that wore off pretty fast.
What can we do but try to find some value in these strange changes in our lives. When I think about families going hungry, losing loved ones, struggling to help their children learn at home, people who are lonely and cannot leave their homes… I have no complaints—except for my fear of what lies ahead for me, my husband, my family and friends—for the whole world.
SJA: As you know, Carole and I have different but very complimentary skill sets, many of which revolve around our professional theatre backgrounds, and some of which are more about our other pursuits, i.e. gardening, designing, etc. After we were quarantined, we both became as involved as we could be with whatever we could do from our home and home offices. Some, as Carole told you, involved long overdue tasks, like the cupboards. I had to also try to do whatever I could to cope with the financial issues, applying for loans, reaching out to creditors and mortgage holders for “time,” applying for unemployment, something I only resorted to once ever before, over 45 years ago, and never imagined I would again. And of course, as the days wore on, and we began to understand the real nature of what was happening, and how long it was likely to last, a kind of grim reality set in. Coping with it was a combination of watching CNN, listening to the experts, seeing what was happening with the federal government, watching our Governor on TV every day, talking to our own doctors and other friends, etc. and then we usually have a lively discussion each day, over coffee, about all of the events of that day.
Following that, I started writing to various government officials, the Governor, our state senators and representatives, and so on. Whenever the weather permitted, Carole and I tried to take a ½ hour walk in the middle of the day. And we started trying to figure out how to safely get groceries, since we were under doctor’s orders to stay home. Oddly, this was much more difficult that I first realized. All the delivery services booked up almost immediately and I had to stay awake until 1:01am to jump on the PeaPod website to score a delivery slot for 3 weeks later. We also went to the “senior concierge” 6:00am shopping at the local Sam’s Club a couple of times. All of these things were frustrating and so difficult compared to life before, and yet, at least we could get food. Often they were out of many things we wanted, but there was always something and enough, un-like so many others, so I really can’t complain.
NLE: What was the inspiration to make the video? What was the “aha moment” that disclosed to you this must be done?
CD: I wanted to do something that would offer comfort to friends and family- something that Stuart and I could make that would be from our hearts. I don’t always like my recordings (I’m very critical of my own work) but I had done one of a favorite song–a great song—“Bridge Over Troubled Water” that said what we wanted to say. I didn’t want to lip-sync it or even appear in it. Ian Herman did such a beautiful accompaniment for me. It seemed the perfect thing. But what about the visual part? I am a crazy gardener. We are fortunate to have a vibrant wooded property we found 33 years ago. It has been a work in progress since then.
It was my dream from the WWII years, when I was a child, to have a garden of my own. My Yaya (Greek grandmother) had three rose bushes in a tiny space in front of her house in Brooklyn. When horse drawn carts would come by (yes- they did—ice man, rag man, knife sharpener man, whatever) Yaya would send me out with a broom and pan to sweep up the horse manure for her roses. I loved the roses and if they needed manure, I was happy to oblige. We traveled around a lot and then Dad, in the OSS, went overseas and we prayed and waited for him and nine other men in the family to please come home safely. It was a time of fear and worry, somewhat like now. Gardens made me feel better if I was lucky enough to be where there was one. As an adult I lived in NYC for 25 years and had a roof garden, in barrels, for 15 of those years. Then, I could also spend time with Paula in “The Magic Garden” on TV, and that garden is still in people’s hearts. They tell us it made them feel safe and happy. We artists may be struggling but we are not helpless as long as we can find that hidden well within where the feelings are, and maybe we can make something meaningful, powerful, helpful.
Now, Stuart and I have gradually carved gardens into these rocky slopes and Stuart photographed them as we went along. I feel zingy with joy when I come inside, muddy and exhausted, after a long day of digging, weeding, pruning and birdsong (sometimes I sing with them). It’s sort of like putting the pieces of a show together, only grimier. I thought if I could help anyone who was troubled in this time of Covid, I would like to walk them through the gardens and around our pond, where nature might give them some peace. Lockdown made that impossible. One day, out in our woods, feeling especially fearful and sad, I wrapped my arms around a beech tree that has grown, over 33 years, into something strong and sturdy. I cried my heart out. I told Sue Matsuki about that tree, how much I feared losing it and our home, and she sent me a song she has written with Gregory Toroian, “My ‘Let It Be Tree’”—and there it all was—everything I was feeling.
Our Cabaret Community is so full of beautiful, talented, giving people. How fortunate we are to have each other. I hope we can sustain each other through whatever is to come. Working with a small, dedicated preservation committee, Stuart and I have saved about 300 acres of forested land nearby and I thought about how much strength and courage we can feel when we know that the beauty we preserved will be here for other people after we’re gone. If we could make our video about things that are meaningful to us, it might be meaningful for others. I thought about the photos Stuart has taken of trees and our gardens. There was a large file of photos we could share! Looking at them, it was clear that they were the answer. So, we put the song, the trees and our garden together.
SJA: My answer to this is really Carole’s answer, we both very much wanted to do something. I recorded Carole and Ian doing that magnificent song and I love their arrangement and, of course, her performance. As Carole and I talked about doing something, I asked her about doing it “live” but she really had the better idea, to take our recording and rather than another standing there singing video, put the wonder and beauty and hopefulness of nature on display instead. And so we did.
NLE: What has the response been to it?
CD: So many talented people have been reaching out with videos, singing, writing, giving what they can. I expected our little offering might get lost in that enormous outpouring of love and comfort. Several other requests for videos from me have come in—specifically asking for video and music contributions different from the one Stuart and I first made. We’ve filled those requests as best we can.
However, people have been liking our “Bridge” video a lot- loving it, in fact, more than I dared hope. It is getting around, gaining momentum. They tell us it is soothing, inspiring, beautiful, exciting. To know that it is doing some good, even for only a few minutes at a time, is satisfying and a reminder of how much we need music in our lives. We just sent it to Phelps Hospital in Sleepy Hollow and were delighted when they asked to post it on Facebook for their staff and first responders.
This is the link:
SJA: As Carole said, we have had simply terrific response to it, and we are very glad to be able to contribute and help whoever, however we can.
NLE: You have a large, tight-knit family; to what extent has the necessity of staying at home affected your ability to be with family and other loved ones? Are you able to compensate through Face-time, Zoom or other technologies?
CD: Yes, I’m blessed with many friends and a large family and extended family (including Paula’s extraordinary adult children) despite having no children of my own. I’ve been designated the “matriarch” (how did that happen?) and Stuart and I built our house (often under great duress and I wasn’t sure we’d ever get there) to be our workplace, a performance space and a refuge and gathering place for everyone. We have been together 39 years, married for 37, are blessed with plenty of room here and are spending a lot of quiet time. I can always nurture my over 100 house plants. They are responsive but quiet. It’s not always that quiet here! Family events and holidays often exceed 35 people. One Christmas, our gathering included an infant and a beloved lady who was 99. Another dream come true. Along the way, I’ve had 27 first cousins. Now there are great grandchildren in the mix. I’m the oldest of 4. My two brothers and my sister are still with us. We are aware of how fortunate that is.
The family is scattered all over the country but Stuart and I plan ahead to make special days when as many of us as possible can be together. Not sure what will happen now with flights becoming much more expensive and possibly hazardous to health. The core of the family is a senior generation. We use email, phone calls and some Facebook, but we aren’t technology bound. Zoom and similar apps might be used in various smaller family groups. I like the good old fashioned telephone and we all email quite a bit. We’re real. Any disagreements and political differences are put away while we recognize our ongoing love for each other and how fortunate we are to be well. My godson/nephew, George Baade, is a Hazmat Specialist with FDNY. He was sick with Covid (as were many First Responders) and took up residence in his garage, but despite precautions taken, his wife, Kim, and one of their 2 children also became infected and ill. All recovered, thank God. We’ve been sharing family photos. Lately, some of us are digging them up from eons ago and sending them out to the group list. Back in the 1940s, who knew how meaningful these would be now.
SJA: My own family is very small and very far away; we stay in touch thru email mostly. We are not as close as Carole’s family is and there are only a handful of us; none are on this coast, so ours is a very different dynamic.
NLE: Stuart, you are a technology-oriented sound engineer and Carole, you are aware of how shows and presentations should be done because of Stuart. With so much content going online and to live-streaming, what has to happen from a technology point of view to ensure top quality?
CD: This is a tough one for me to answer. I’m pretty good at a lotta things, but technical stuff—not so hot. I’m surprised, frankly, by the quality of video that can be created with an iPhone, but the sound quality is not nearly as good, so far, as we might want. Stuart records to his console simultaneously, so he can remix. It’s really great to have that possibility. If we performers are to continue making our own videos, wouldn’t it be wonderful to be able to shoot from different angles, to make something with more depth and variety, to stream live without distortions and other issues even if we are not technologically highly skilled? Richard Skipper and Sue Matusuki, God bless them, just reorganized an 80th Birthday Celebration for performer/writer/producer Bobbie Horowitz and me, which was to have been at The Laurie Beechman Theater. Richard and Sue pulled it off incredibly, on line. Some of the lovely people who joined in with birthday messages and songs had technical difficulties. I wish it could be easier for all of us to do.
My hope is that by the time we actually have technology that is easy to operate and can enable us to make truly high quality videos to share, we will have a Covid vaccine, and can also return to live theater, concert and cabaret. I’ve been in the biz for 60 years. I’ve done a bit of film, quite a lot of television and theater. It’s a surprise to suddenly see one of my guest star roles turn up in an old “Route 66,”” Mannix.” Barnaby Jones,” “Kojak,” or one of the others I’ve nearly forgotten. They are a reminder that the camera can capture a performance and keep it for the future. That’s certainly not something I thought about when I was shooting these shows in the 60s and 70s—but although their longevity is a happy surprise, there is nothing like playing to a live audience. It’s very scary sometimes, very challenging—new and fraught with a range of possibilities every time you step out into that light, but the feel of it—the thrilling presence of people hopefully enjoying what you are giving, especially in Cabaret where you can feel your audience breathing, where you can make those moments where they are so moved by what you are doing that they seem to stop breathing and there is that incredible magical silence, or roars of laughter, of just the feeling that people are having fun and you’ve taken them to a new place for a little while—there’s nothing else like it. And how fragile and powerful at once, knowing that while this moment may be remembered, it will be over in an instant. And even though you can do it again and again, if you’re lucky enough to have a run, no two performances will ever be exactly the same.
SJA: I have a true love/hate relationship with the current technology. Certainly my business and life are consumed by AV technology of all sorts, but the current state of almost all of the “live” streaming technology, in my view leaves a lot to be desired, both in audio and video, but especially in the audio department. In the professional world of audio and video (and lighting, and theatre) the high end technology can be exceptional and create glorious sound and video to be enjoyed by anyone watching and listening. And when we can use that to “broadcast” or stream a finished piece, (like the video we created and others on our YouTube channel and so many others out there) the quality of what we (and others) created (when downloaded and then played) can be really fine.
So the internet, as we know, can deliver really fine AV with good bandwidth and a decent playback system. BUT, the interactive and live experience simply falls very far short of that. Not to go into a huge dissertation on the subject, but just to name a few things that I find so objectionable, on the video side, the various services that one uses, zoom or teams or whatever, fail to give the participants any decent control of their video. They don’t have a way for the participants to frame themselves decently, adjust the cropping of their personal image, or to color correct the image to look better, or even to adjust the focus and exposure. Nor do many of them allow the user to mirror the image, so that as they look at themselves on the screen the participants can see themselves as they would in a mirror instead of seeing the “camera” image.” Some of the services do offer this particular feature; some do not. All the rest is just left up to the vagaries of the particular webcam in use at the time, and most of them are not flattering, as they were not originally conceived for HD broadcasting, nor for discerning clientele. In the corporate world, they mostly don’t care about this, so for simple informational business meetings, the video is “good enough”. But for those of us in professional entertainment, it is not even close. We are in a business where image matters a lot.
And then there is the audio. In my opinion, the audio us truly awful. Again, something well mixed and simply broadcast (streamed) can sound good, but the “live” streamed audio and especially with more than one open mic is simply dreadful. It varies in level, and in quality, rapidly and often for no discernible reason. The beginning of a person’s sentence sounds fine and ½ way thru the sentence they are under water, burbling and gurgling or just dropping out altogether. It goes in and out, up and down, so much, that when trying to listen to someone, I get lost in the whatever was being discussed, because I am so distracted by how bad it is. On top of all this, then add the lost lip-sync. Synchronization of sound and video is tricky under the best of circumstances, with the current state of the industry the focus is on the video, and not the audio. The video gets very processed and compressed in order to transmit it efficiently. This processing takes time, the audio is not processed the same way and what little they do, takes less time. The result is very often out of sync people talking.
And once again, there are no good controls or good ways to do this with webcams. Most of the time the mic is in the camera. If the camera is far enough away to give a decent picture and not way too in your face, then the mic is too far away to sound good. Couple that with the room acoustics of most people rooms where they are using this and you get a sound that is not up close and personal, but instead, a bit distant and echoey, as well as inconsistent on its own without the added mess of transmission errors.
So, to answer this question, what is needed is a truly multi-platform streaming service that can run on any platform at all, in every browser and that offers major control over the camera input and the camera image, major control of the audio output and auto muting, so mics not in use are muted automatically. Further, this mythical service should allow for the use of a desktop microphone that can be put very near to the person speaking, and then process the audio with the video so that it stays in sync. Then, on the back end, the service needs a very high end algorithm to process the multiple audio streams, in a highly intelligent and intelligible way. When you think about it, the video (if you have say 5 people on screen) is divided up so that each person is in their own little window, but all the audio is being mixed all together so that all of it comes out of the same little speakers on the computer. This is a part of why this is so difficult.
There is a lot more that can be discussed, but, for now, the current implementation pales in comparison to what it might become. However, by the time it gets to that point, I am most hopeful that while corporate America will reap those benefits—we will be back live and in person, because nothing on line can come close to the magic that can happen live.
NLE: Have you plans for at post pandemic return to live performance? When do you think we’ll be able to enjoy live performance again?
CD: As we know, this dangerous, even lethal pandemic is so new, even doctors and all manner of experts are loath to predict what the future will bring. Since it looks like we can at least push against it by altering our behavior, and there is that exciting possibility of a vaccine, I hope we can look forward to live performance again—to a time when people can have a live audience experience without fear—but certainly I am not qualified to say when that might be.
So many of us have had to put aside our performance plans. Sarah Rice, Hal Robinson, Warren Helms, Maria Banks, Stuart and I, for instance, worked for several years to create and perform our Jones/Schmidt tribute, Thank You For Your Love which got great reviews, won a Bistro and attracted a number of booking agents. We invested a great deal personally, built momentum and had huge hopes for it. Having it all come to a stop has been shocking and miserable. And the loss, for now or forever, of this project, good as it is, doesn’t begin to compare with the gigantic Broadway losses, the huge concerts, the community and regional theaters all over the country—all over the world—and the threat to the lovely, intimate venues we have counted on for so long. In big and small ways, there are disappointments. I worked with a High School Grease cast several months ago. I have done this a number of times. How good it feels to be a part of this memorable chapter of their lives. This time, after all of their devotion and excitement, this cast and crew never got to perform their show for their eagerly waiting audience. I tried to help them by telling them that any time you are brave enough to take a risk, try to do something new, what you learn is a part of you forever, even if you don’t reach the final goal, and that many performers, on all levels, have had that experience. It hurts a lot, but it’s also part of growing.
Paula and I had live performances on our calendar, and the documentary and possibly some autograph shows on our list. We have to be in a holding pattern for now. Stuart and I had scheduled eight House Concerts—the same number we presented, very successfully, last year. I like doing benefit concerts. Not happening now. I would like to bring another cabaret show into the city. Like a lot of us, the costs were an issue when things were “normal.” Now, who knows? We wait to see when/if the curtain might go up again. If/when that happens, I hope to be healthy and strong and ready to be who I am and give what I’ve got. I wish that will be true for every artist in every milieu. I’m 80 years old. I worry. I want the chance to keep trying to make something beautiful. Time feels different now—it goes so fast—maybe that’s a good thing!
SJA: When this pandemic hit us, I had a number of projects in progress and a number more just about to happen. As you know, in addition to all my live theatre and concert/cabaret work, I design and consult on systems for all sorts of venues, ranging from large performing arts centers, to houses of worship of all kinds and sizes, to theatres of all sizes and other venues, including clubs. Some of my projects were cancelled outright, others are on hold, others were awaiting final budgeting approvals, and I have no idea now if any of that will happen given the economy of the moment. All of my live mixing or recording gigs were cancelled, of course. So, as I sit here the future seems very uncertain. As everyone knows, Broadway never closed before, not in wars or even the 1st pandemic in 1918, with the singular exception of a 2 day closure after 9-11. Now Broadway is closed, for months. Possibly it will reopen in some form in September, but, right now, no one really knows. The devastation on the industry is immense. I have no idea how theatres can operate at 1/3 or ½ capacity given the normal running costs, and now they have months of debt added to it all. I’m no expert on any of this but it seems fairly clear that until there is a vaccine, and until lots of people have received it, “normal” just won’t happen.
I’m cautiously optimistic that we might be able to re-start our house concert series, since we only have about 25-30 people for each one in a 1,000 sq ft performance space, with chairs and sofas nicely spaced out. I have some other ideas about some possibilities for some things outside of the city, but I need a promoter partner to make that happen and I have not found one yet. Until then, I’ll keep doing as much music mixing and video editing as I can. Finally, once we really have this under control and can have an audience at our clubs and theatres, of course I plan to get back to the work I love, bringing music and art and thrilling performances to audiences of all ages.
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